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	<title>Comments on: Dads are fandabbydozy (sp?)</title>
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	<link>http://pinktape.co.uk/cases/dads-are-fandabbydozy-sp/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=dads-are-fandabbydozy-sp</link>
	<description>a blog from the family bar</description>
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		<title>By: Nick Langford</title>
		<link>http://pinktape.co.uk/cases/dads-are-fandabbydozy-sp/#comment-257</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Langford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalfamily.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-257</guid>
		<description>No, I don&#039;t think there is a secret government agenda, they aren&#039;t that competent, though there are certainly individual MPs with their own agendas, many of which are profoundly anti-family.  It is certainly the case - we have evidence - that the government has funded some &#039;rival&#039; organisations in order to lure members away from us.  Some might think that is a responsible use of public funds, but it hasn&#039;t worked very well.  I am also suspicious of a government which tends - wittingly or not - to exclude fathers at every step, and then financially backs websites which try to pick up the pieces.  This government has always been wildly inconsistent on family policy and I suppose I cannot accept any of these websites at face value.  Government funding does mean that the recipients need to be careful about how much they criticise government policy if they don&#039;t want their income to dry up - F4J may have next to no money, but at least we can be entirely honest in what we say and how we campaign.

Obviously my perspective differs from yours, and I see an imbalance the other way, we cannot use taxpayers&#039; money to promote our views, nor can we take down websites we don&#039;t like - as has happened in other jurisdictions and has been attempted here.

I certainly take your point that many new fathers need help to be fathers because they do not have the example of their own fathers to follow.  I am concerned, however,  that our society has reached a point where men have to be told that its &#039;ok to be involved&#039;.  Can you imagine reaching a point where mothers need to be told that?  On this point therefore I think you are wrong: a father being allowed to be a father is indeed now a freak show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I don&#8217;t think there is a secret government agenda, they aren&#8217;t that competent, though there are certainly individual MPs with their own agendas, many of which are profoundly anti-family.  It is certainly the case &#8211; we have evidence &#8211; that the government has funded some &#8216;rival&#8217; organisations in order to lure members away from us.  Some might think that is a responsible use of public funds, but it hasn&#8217;t worked very well.  I am also suspicious of a government which tends &#8211; wittingly or not &#8211; to exclude fathers at every step, and then financially backs websites which try to pick up the pieces.  This government has always been wildly inconsistent on family policy and I suppose I cannot accept any of these websites at face value.  Government funding does mean that the recipients need to be careful about how much they criticise government policy if they don&#8217;t want their income to dry up &#8211; F4J may have next to no money, but at least we can be entirely honest in what we say and how we campaign.</p>
<p>Obviously my perspective differs from yours, and I see an imbalance the other way, we cannot use taxpayers&#8217; money to promote our views, nor can we take down websites we don&#8217;t like &#8211; as has happened in other jurisdictions and has been attempted here.</p>
<p>I certainly take your point that many new fathers need help to be fathers because they do not have the example of their own fathers to follow.  I am concerned, however,  that our society has reached a point where men have to be told that its &#8216;ok to be involved&#8217;.  Can you imagine reaching a point where mothers need to be told that?  On this point therefore I think you are wrong: a father being allowed to be a father is indeed now a freak show.</p>
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		<title>By: familoo</title>
		<link>http://pinktape.co.uk/cases/dads-are-fandabbydozy-sp/#comment-256</link>
		<dc:creator>familoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalfamily.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-256</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know where the funding for dadsinfo comes from or who it is ultimately run by, but I think its a useful resource nonetheless.

I understand why you see the site as slightly patronising, and to some extent I agree - but I think there are a lot of new and young dads out there who don&#039;t necessarily have the confidence to be hands on dads because they don&#039;t have experience of it from their own dads. And I value that this site tells them that its ok to be involved and helps them to do that - even though for you, your dad, my other half and lots of others it might all be a bit obvious or patronising.

I don&#039;t necessarily have a problem with a site like this having government backing, but I&#039;m not sure exactly what you are suggesting the implications of being &#039;funded and run by government are&#039;. If there is some secret government agenda behind it its a pretty benign one I think.

You suggest one of the roles of dadinfo may be to counter the claims of other more campaign based websites - perhaps, but from where I&#039;m standing it adds a bit of balance to what is otherwise quite a skewed selection of resource available on the web. There is room on the web for each type of site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know where the funding for dadsinfo comes from or who it is ultimately run by, but I think its a useful resource nonetheless.</p>
<p>I understand why you see the site as slightly patronising, and to some extent I agree &#8211; but I think there are a lot of new and young dads out there who don&#8217;t necessarily have the confidence to be hands on dads because they don&#8217;t have experience of it from their own dads. And I value that this site tells them that its ok to be involved and helps them to do that &#8211; even though for you, your dad, my other half and lots of others it might all be a bit obvious or patronising.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t necessarily have a problem with a site like this having government backing, but I&#8217;m not sure exactly what you are suggesting the implications of being &#8216;funded and run by government are&#8217;. If there is some secret government agenda behind it its a pretty benign one I think.</p>
<p>You suggest one of the roles of dadinfo may be to counter the claims of other more campaign based websites &#8211; perhaps, but from where I&#8217;m standing it adds a bit of balance to what is otherwise quite a skewed selection of resource available on the web. There is room on the web for each type of site.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Langford</title>
		<link>http://pinktape.co.uk/cases/dads-are-fandabbydozy-sp/#comment-255</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Langford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalfamily.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-255</guid>
		<description>My postings to your blog always seem to be rather negative (I know, get your own blog), and that isn&#039;t like me at all, so I&#039;ll start by earning a couple of brownie points for saying how glad I am (truly) that the wee man is progressing well, and for thanking you for your endorsement of us dads (tell that to Harman).

Now to business.  I can&#039;t help but notice that there is a proliferation of websites now, patronisingly purporting to help dads and give them advice (funny how my father managed to change nappies - not disposable - without such help).  There are really only two reasons for producing websites for fathers; the first is for the purpose of running a campaign for legal reform, and the second is to counter the claims made by such campaigns (while suggesting that fatherhood is something the state needs to monitor closely).

The first are run for their members, with funding from their members (unless you sell out, as some have done) and the second are run and funded by government (though they often cover their tracks well).  I doubt very much that there is a third kind, run for purely altruistic reasons, and without funding other than by the owner.

Dadsinfo appears to be independent, but its content follows a familiar touchy-feely pattern (politically uncontroversial), and its owner, Duncan Fisher, was (is?) the chief executive of Fathers Direct (now the pretentiously named Fatherhood Institute) which is a government-run agency.  Other contributors have a Fathers Direct background.

Just an observation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My postings to your blog always seem to be rather negative (I know, get your own blog), and that isn&#8217;t like me at all, so I&#8217;ll start by earning a couple of brownie points for saying how glad I am (truly) that the wee man is progressing well, and for thanking you for your endorsement of us dads (tell that to Harman).</p>
<p>Now to business.  I can&#8217;t help but notice that there is a proliferation of websites now, patronisingly purporting to help dads and give them advice (funny how my father managed to change nappies &#8211; not disposable &#8211; without such help).  There are really only two reasons for producing websites for fathers; the first is for the purpose of running a campaign for legal reform, and the second is to counter the claims made by such campaigns (while suggesting that fatherhood is something the state needs to monitor closely).</p>
<p>The first are run for their members, with funding from their members (unless you sell out, as some have done) and the second are run and funded by government (though they often cover their tracks well).  I doubt very much that there is a third kind, run for purely altruistic reasons, and without funding other than by the owner.</p>
<p>Dadsinfo appears to be independent, but its content follows a familiar touchy-feely pattern (politically uncontroversial), and its owner, Duncan Fisher, was (is?) the chief executive of Fathers Direct (now the pretentiously named Fatherhood Institute) which is a government-run agency.  Other contributors have a Fathers Direct background.</p>
<p>Just an observation.</p>
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		<title>By: familoo</title>
		<link>http://pinktape.co.uk/cases/dads-are-fandabbydozy-sp/#comment-254</link>
		<dc:creator>familoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalfamily.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-254</guid>
		<description>fnar fnar....yeah i kind of spotted that little glitch, but then got distracted by the need to change a nappy i think...no the bearded one is fully potty trained...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fnar fnar&#8230;.yeah i kind of spotted that little glitch, but then got distracted by the need to change a nappy i think&#8230;no the bearded one is fully potty trained&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: STH</title>
		<link>http://pinktape.co.uk/cases/dads-are-fandabbydozy-sp/#comment-253</link>
		<dc:creator>STH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalfamily.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-253</guid>
		<description>Dads are gRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEAAAAT!

Is that because he wears nappies?

(Read the post below, carefully)

Dr. P. Dant</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dads are gRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEAAAAT!</p>
<p>Is that because he wears nappies?</p>
<p>(Read the post below, carefully)</p>
<p>Dr. P. Dant</p>
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